Our latest Connect Meetup: “Label vs. Self-Release: the Pros and Cons!”
FULL MEETUP VIDEO
Part II (with Ëmbyrblume)
Wednesday, May 28
TWO TIMES:
1-2:30pm Pacific (9-10:30pm UK | 10-11:30pm CET)
7-8:30pm Pacific (11am – 12:30pm Japan, Thurs, May 29)
Connect Members, join us as we discuss the pluses and minuses of releasing your track with an established label, vs handling things on your own.
We’ll have a truly AWESOME group of guest panelists for this talk:
- Embyrblume (formerly know as “Katie Seven”), a dynamic DJ & producer from Tokyo now embarking on a new independent artist path for herself.
- Felix Myni8hte, producer & co-owner of Summer Melody & NuHouse labels, specializing in melodic progressive house and “the deeper side” of house music. His label, Summer Melody just celebrated its 7th anniversary.
- JP Lantieri, DJ/Producer/Label Head/Artist Coach. JP founded and is currently running the highly regarded Flemcy Music label, which has made 50+ releases of more than 200 tracks by 70 artists. As a DJ, he has played at such illustrious venues as EGG and Ministry of Sound in London
- Wilson Costa. Wilson has founded several labels (Makira Deep, Silent Koalas, Being Humans), plays multiple instruments, and has done a great number of interesting producer collabs & remixes throughout his music career.
- Jason Edwards, head of UK label, EML Recordings. A 15-year veteran of the electronic music industry, Jay’s new sub label, EDM Addicts, recently had a #1 track on the Beatport charts (Matteo Desko’s “Rush”)
- PhuturePhil (Phil Barker), producer/DJ. As a DJ, Phil has done headline gigs in Finland, as a producer, his track, “Deadbolt” has received over one million streams on Spotify.
- Jeffrey Martin. As a producer (one half of “Visors”), Jeff has collaborated with former members of The Sugarcubes (Björk’s original band), and is now working on launching an LA branch of his label, Icons Creating Evil Art.
- Tobias Zaldua, producer, singer/songwriter, and film soundtrack composer. Tobias has worked with artists such as singer Kirsty Hawkshaw and French drum & bass producer, Navé.
- Kevin Pajak, Electrofans Founder/CEO. Kevin is a web engineer, designer, entrepreneur, writer, as well the founder of two successful music companies.
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING:
INTROS
Kevin: Hey, everybody. Welcome to today’s Electrofans Connect Meetup, where our topic today is on label versus self-release for electronic music producers. We’ve got an amazing panel here of JP Lantieri, Lorna Hackett, Wilson Costa, PhuturePhil, Felix Myni8hte, Jeffrey Martin, Tobias Zaldua, and Jay from EML Recordings.
And yeah, what we’re going to do is we’re going to cover the pros and cons, what the options are. We’ve got, again, our panel is extremely well qualified, having done a combination of their own releases, in some cases doing their own labels and doing a combination of both and also running labels.
So I figured we could kind of just go ahead and start off by introducing yourselves kind of briefly. We can kind of go around the room. I kind of like to do ladies first. So Lorna, maybe if you can kind of introduce yourself and yeah, what you’ve been up to in your release-wise.
Lorna: Thank you, Kevin. My name is Lorna Hackett in real life and my artist name is Lorna James. And I’m a pianist and a music producer and I write sort of ambient and classical and house music. And that’s basically it. But yeah, we’ve just been talking before the recording started about a track that JP and I are just about to release on his label. So that segues directly into JP.
JP: Yeah, so I’m Jean-Pierre. My artist name is JP Lantieri. It’s my real name. I’m an artist, as Lorna just said. So I’m a producer, I’m DJing also. And I also own a label which is called Flemcy Music. It’s a progressive house melodic techno label. And that’s true that this coming Friday we have Lorna and I, we have another famous lady, Jan Jonston. The three of us, we have a track coming out, a song coming out this Friday. So I’m very happy.
Awesome. Phil, it’s been a while. So how about if you jump in?
Phil: It has been a while. Hey, everybody, I’m Phil. I go by the artist name, PhuturePhil. I make progressive house and deep house. Let’s see, what have I been up to lately? I’ve been writing and rewriting an album project for like two years now, and it’s still not where I want it. So it’ll get there one day. You know, you just got to keep plugging at it. So but other than that, I’ve been helping some artists out with their marketing, social media, stuff like that, kind of behind the scenes. So kind of doing a little bit of everything right now. But great. I had the pencil union for one of our when we talk about social media focused topics for next meetup.
Cool. Wilson?
Wilson: So hello, I’m Wilson. I’m from the band, Humans Out Loud, and I have two labels, Silent Koalas and Being Humans. I’ve been DJing. I’m a producer, graphic designer, communication guy. So I do a lot of stuff.
Kevin: You also play like saxophone and a lot of different instruments.
Wilson: Yeah, I play clarinet and saxophone.
Kevin: Oh, cool. Yeah, Felix.
Felix: So hi, I’m Felix. I produce an artist with the alias Myni8hte and I also DJ. And for this particular panel, I think I will also introduce a new sort of identity, which is I’m a master’s graduate from Hong Kong Baptist University and my research background is on new media and net labels, online music labels. I also do co-own Summer Melody and NuHouse, two labels which are more focused on deep and melodic progressive house and trance.
Great. Perfect for the panel.
Yeah. Mr. Martin.
Jeff: Hey, Jeff Martin. I do a group called Visors. We’re signed to ICEA Virgin Music and I do all kinds of stuff. I’m writing for A-listers out here in L.A. now. I’m super busy. It’s great. I love it.
Kevin: That’s right. You just moved to L.A., right?
Jeff: I did. Yeah. I’m sure that’s been great so far for you, right?
It was hurry up and wait because at that level, those people, they don’t need hits like I do. So it was hurry up and wait and now it’s a lot. So it’s good. Yeah. Cranking it. Awesome stuff.
Tobias: Hi, everybody. I’m Tobias Zaldua. I was going to say I’m a DIY artist, but everybody’s a DIY artist. So yeah, I like doing, I like a lot of genres. So this is always like a problem because I don’t really like to think about the genre that I’m writing in. So I’ll solve that problem later. At the moment I’m working on something that’s primarily spoken word and drum and bass, though I’m not really a drum and bass producer by any means, but I’m just loving the feel of it and the way it works.
So in my other life, I edit music documentaries and used to do some video editing for promos back in the day. And more recently, some composing some music for some British artists, which got exhibited recently, which was a blessing because I’ve been a bit absent from the scene and then they decided to get some really good gallery space. And so that kind of was a really good boost for me. So yeah, I’ll just flip between the two. So if I’m not working, I’m sort of, I consider it work, but everybody else thinks I’m just faffing around doing these little new ideas. But I can tell you, I think everybody knows that the music thing is the hardest work for a client. It’s like you don’t have so much investment, but for yourself, it’s like life and death, isn’t it? Yeah, we’re in the same boat.
Jay: Yeah. Jay. Jay. Hi, guys. Yes, I am Jason, owner of the Electronic Music Lovers group. And we are three labels, radio station, podcast, mastering service, publishing company, and soon to be promo pool as well. So yeah, lots of things under one roof.
Kevin: Wow. That’s so cool. There’s nothing you guys don’t do. That’s awesome.
Jay: Yeah. Yeah. That’s busy, busy, busy. Lots going on for sure.
Kevin: All right. Yeah. So what I’ll do next here is I’ll go ahead and share my screen. I have a little thingy here. Let’s see. Can you guys see that there? A slideshow? Okay. Yeah. So again, our topic today is, of course, label versus self-release for producers. We’re going to look at the pros and cons.
RELEASE OPTIONS FOR PRODUCERS
Kevin: Yeah. So I figured kind of start off situating everything kind of basically and just look at like what are the options for producers when releasing tracks and kind of figured pretty much there were four of them:
1. Release on a label.
2. Self-release.
3. Mix and match (do some releases on a label and some self-released).
4. Create your own label.
MAIN THINGS PRODUCERS SHOULD LOOK FOR IN A LABEL
Kevin: And then for the first one there, releasing with a label, kind of got a few things here for this one here. So what are the things producers should look for or look out for in a prospective label? And then how much does size matter? Maybe we’ll kind of just chew into these first two actually together. And in some cases, people could obviously think, well, you know, is a bigger label, you know, like Black Hole Recordings or like Armada, you know, Above and Beyond, you know, Angie and the Deep, people could say, wow, if I get in with these guys, it could be necessarily, you know, blow me up. But in some cases, could it actually be better to go the smaller route? So, yeah, kind of open it up.
So as far as like things producers should look for or look out for in a prospective label, Jeff, maybe kind of throw the mic out to you to start with that one, if you have any thoughts.
Jeff: Yeah, when you talk about the size matter, it does in a lot of ways. But the big thing is you want to look for distro. So who are they distributed by? So if it’s a much smaller distro, you may not get the results you expected. So I found that that’s what I was looking for primarily when we were looking to sign. But then we also were looking for the freedom to do what we wanted to do. So finding all the right things. So that’s what we were looking for is distro primarily. And we found a good label that had good distro. And, you know, just yeah, so that’s what we’re looking for.
Kevin: Sure, that makes sense. To me, that would be, you know, yeah, one of the things that, you know, if you’re a smaller producer that would get you turned on about working with a label, thinking, OK, we can get like massive reach. Yeah. See, anyone else want to jump in on that?
JP: Yep. In terms for someone like me who is an electronic music producer, so each track I release is a different output. It could be some tracks I release on some labels that I pitched the track to and they accepted. Some tracks I release self-release just as an artist. Some tracks I release on my own label. So it’s a mix of everything.
When I pitch to a label, when I pitch some of my tracks to a label, what I’m looking for is preferably a big label, but the bigger they are, the less inclined they would be to respond to me. Because they cater for the big artists first and then the smaller artists, they either ignore them or if they are not already introduced to them, they will not even see them. There’s a question of visibility there. The bigger label, of course, size matters because if I had the chance to be signed on Anjuna Deep or Black Hole, it’s good for my profile. It’s also good because as it’s a big name, I have a better chance to have my track shown in front of more people, a bigger audience. But there are some pros and cons because sometimes if you manage to get signed to a bigger label, they would not make much effort for a smaller artist because they would prioritize their big artists. So sometimes it’s better for a smaller artist to release on smaller labels, not too small either, because if they are too small, they don’t have any reach. And sometimes they don’t have any budget for promotion or they don’t do any work.
And sometimes a mid-sized label could be a good option because they are already established, their name is known. They are not super big like Armada, but they are big enough to have an impact on the scene, especially if it is a niche scene. It could be deep house, progressive house, trance, pop, whatever. So in that case, it’s the best of both worlds, I would say. Mid-sized label, that’s my opinion. But even a mid-sized label is not easy to reach because they receive thousands of demos every week, literally. So for yours to be listened to, it’s a bit of a challenge. But these labels often listen to the demo and if your music is good enough, they can say yes, I release it. It happened to me for some of my tracks. I’ve been released on maybe 20 labels or so. This can happen. My label, for example, is a small label, but I’m always trying to put the maximum effort like I would expect from a bigger label to do. So promotion, PR, DJ promo, social media, videos, advertising, etc.
Well, that’s something to say about size matters. Yeah, I like the, so I’m hearing a couple of things there, JP. So I like on the niche aspect, you know, the advantageousness of that. And then it sounds like too, that’s kind of where I was potentially going to take this to when I made these slides up, like, you know, the relationship, yeah, can be a closer, maybe more intimate one in some cases versus the big boys, you know, where they’re just wanting to, I could see where they just want to focus on their main, you know, like you see like Armada, like they tend to have their kind of clicky, you know, like Ruben De Ronde, like the Dutch boys, you know, they kind of, you know, but they’re also like, they have that scale.
So kind of going into point number three there, what are the most important things you want to make clear before signing with a label? This JP kind of started bleeding into this a little bit, like, for example, expectations on promotion, budget, who will do what work in terms of promotion, etc. I know we discussed this kind of thing in some of our most recent meetups too, where JP had mentioned like some of the bigger labels that you would hope, you had great expectations, but you felt like they didn’t really do much for you. Then I want to circle back to Jeff, who I think too is a big proponent, a label guy. So JP, I know, because you did have some thoughts on that, maybe kind of briefly we can start with you there. Jeff, you start.
Jeff: Okay, sure, that’s fine. I was so ready for JP. What was the question again? Sorry. Sure, yeah, yeah, no problem. Just because I just say that because I know JP mentioned that before, no problem. So yeah, the most important things that you’d want to make clear as a producer before signing with the label. For us, it was really specific. It was the marketing and the push, right? So I’m willing to give up some royalties when I know that the label is going to put between $5,000 and $8,000 into the marketing when the song releases. Well, it is. Yeah, well, yeah, it is. It’s a lot, actually. So, you know, and you could get by on a lot less. And depending on the song, you know, and the feature that we use, because we use a lot of featured artists, that does kind of go higher and lower. But the thing is, where am I going to get that money from?
I have a really great example of a friend of mine who wanted to go it alone and he ended up spending $25,000 last year, you know, of his own money to release a few songs. And now he’s regretting it. And, you know, we all have ways we want to do things, but that was the big clear thing for me was when I was talking to labels was like, what are you going to put behind it? And so that’s what I was looking for. Plus the relationship, you know, you could get signed to the biggest label in the world and just not get along with your A&R person. So we get along so well with the owner of the label, you know, we could not be in a better position. But we got lucky. You know, we were signed to a bunch of other labels, didn’t work out, but we got lucky on this one.
Excuse me, are you signed exclusively to this label? No, actually not, which is great. So if I take a song to them and I submit it, we did a hip hop song last year and the label didn’t feel like they could really do much with it. So we did release it on our own and then it actually tracked really well. So, yeah, so it got some sync, which, you know, which was great. So, yeah, so it’s not exclusive, which is great. I mean, they get first right, though. First right of refusal.
Kevin: Who are you signed to, Jeff?
Jeff: So it’s yeah, so it’s Icons Creating Evil Art out of Sweden. And so they’re they’re kind of under the Virgin Music blanket. Yeah, yeah. So the part of the umbrella. Yeah, yeah, it’s great. And actually they’ve they since I moved to L.A., there’s we’re starting a L.A. branch or a U.S. branch of their label called Icons L.A. So that’s what we’re doing a little bit, too.
Kevin: Yeah, I was curious – so are you both like signed as an independent artist through Visors and all. You’re also kind of like doing direct work as the label itself. Are you kind of like doing both together?
Jeff: I’m doing both just be only because we I’m so good at A&R these days because I deal with so many features that when I was moving here, I just asked them, I was like, let’s let’s get this thing cracking here. And he said, yeah, let’s let’s do that. So we’ve got a bunch of artists. I’m actually signing the guys from Oingo Boingo, their new band. So I’m signing that they’re the first release.
Kevin: Wow. Is that more rock oriented? Is that like new wave kind of stuff?
Jeff: New wave. Yeah, it’s new wave. Yeah, they’re pretty new wave. Yeah, but but we put the label on sign to does so many different things. They do hard rock metal. We’re the pop group, you know, so.
Kevin: Yeah, I think you guys do some nu-disco, too. I think I got some promos a few years ago. Yeah, keep me. I’d have to check you guys out in the L.A. thing because, yeah, L.A. is kind of the biggest scene in the world for for entertainment.
Yeah. Yeah. Jay, I know you’ve got a lot of thoughts on all this, running EML Recordings and all your children and child labels underneath the parent.
Jay: You know what? I think that I guess it depends on on what you class as a big, medium and small label, because, you know, for me being able to yeah, I’ve never at the moment would be able to put in anywhere near three to eight thousand pounds, you know, into into a release. And I wish I think as a producer, as an average producer that’s kind of just kind of breaking into the scene and is looking at your kind of average, you know, bedroom label, which is what most producers, most of us are. I think that you should be looking at whether they’re future proof, because the music landscape is changing so fast, so rapidly, as is every other landscape around us. And so what I would be looking at is, is this label kind of sticking to, you know, kind of old ways of doing things or is it embracing, you know, new technology? Is it embracing AI with its marketing and the way that it’s kind of operating things, is it transparent with me? Do I feel that I can trust the label? So I think those things for your average producer would probably be more or as important as the size of the label itself and what they’re going to be doing in terms of marketing and promoting you. So I guess that’s me as a producer. That’s kind of what I look at.
Kevin: There’s an awesome point. It reminds me kind of like a job interview where the company turns it back to the employee. It’s like, do you have any questions for us? And then you kind of interview them. They say, where do you see yourself headed? Well, then you say, you as the company, where are you guys headed? That’s really cool. Anybody else have any thoughts on that one?
Felix: Maybe I could jump into it. So for us, as Summer Melody and also this up-and-coming label NuHouse, we consider ourselves relatively small scale. But at the same time, because of our position, especially on the genres of melodic progressive, which we are mainly based on, we have quite a unique sort of community culture because we do support our artists surrounding the whole genre. Even though maybe we also have like artists relationships with other labels on the same realm, like Immersion, Soluna, Synth Collective.
I think we just sort of help ourselves because at that time when we established our own labels, like eight to 10 years ago, we originally have a label group, which is now closed down, which have released a lot of different artists’ work, which also surrounds on the whole genre, Collapse. And at that time we decided to have our own labels on our own end.
And for that part, I think that for artists who sign to labels like I’ve just mentioned, I think that for us, it’s not necessarily on the most important on how the track sounds or how does it sales or promotion stuff. But we kind of like helping the artists to grow and we do provide feedback like on their mixing, on how their mastering could be better.
And also with that kind of like supporting each other, our costs for working on a release actually is pushing quite low because we will not pay the cost for them to pay for the mastering themselves or the promotion for themselves. We just covers our own with our part of royalties, like a 50-50 split. And it’s already enough to help them to promote it to certain DJs and artists. And as well as we do use social media as promotion platforms. And of course they also have the responsibility to share themselves as well. But I think for us, because we have this kind of unique genre-based culture, I think this also maybe provides a particularly different perspective than those on larger labels or mid-scale labels.
Kevin: Yeah. Felix, I just wanted to touch on something you said there.
Jeff: What I find is really important about being signed and having, you know, we have label mates, we have all the relationships that the label has. That’s another big part of being on the label is their relationships. I’m not going to get those relationships in a year’s time. You know what I mean? They’ve been building those relationships for years. So being signed to a label helps you with the relationships that they already have. Full stop. You know what I mean? And also let’s be honest, like it is a flex, right? Like it is a flex when you can be like, oh yeah, well I’m signed to this label and we have all these people. So the networking is vast on that. And I depend on networking. I really do.
Kevin: Yeah. Okay. So there guys, it sounds like you’re talking about like what I call the intangibles, right? So sometimes, I’ve noticed this too, my own experience with Electrofans, like sometimes money, relationships where money doesn’t change hands can have almost an infinitely greater value for you. 100%. In Electrofans case, it’s a platform for you guys as a label, as an artist. So Felix, just to kind of re-cap on what you were saying there, so you kind of have like a set idea, like you kind of let it be known out of the gate that, okay, we’re going to do like 50-50. Like you have a set number. So the expectations are, we’ll kind of co-promote this together, like a 50-50 then, huh?
Felix: Yeah, I would say so. And of course, our approach for the artists to sign with us is relatively organic right now. Not necessarily we are reaching out and have them sign with us, that kind of approach now. And it’s also like providing the artists their own freedom. If they want to sign with a label, that’s their choice. And if they not, they could do it themselves. But you may have missed out that we have the resources to, even though it’s not that high resource, but it’s still kind of a way for them to promote themselves just through a label platform. Like that.
Yeah, so many parts of that. It’s like a co-op. Oh yeah. And also because of how media rapidly develops right now, we have internet, we have social media, it’s not very hard to release music right now. But with labels as a platform, even though whether you regard it as really a platform to help you to step up or not, even though it may not bring you a lot of reach, but still a label is a platform really helps artists to grow. Sure, a lot of pieces of the pie there, yeah.
PROS OF SIGNING WITH A LABEL
Kevin: Yeah, so kind of moving on. So pros and cons. So what would you say would be, you know, what are the pros of signing with a label? And Jeff, I think we’re gonna start with you because again, I think we’re all see the advantages of a label, but I think you were, I think Jay will go next too, but yeah, Jeff, maybe starting with you.
Jeff: The pros have always been for me when I first started doing visors, the pros were, I just like, you know, the old label model was we’re gonna take all your money, we’re gonna make you look good, you’re gonna feel good, but then we’re taking all your money in the end. It’s not the same as it is, that’s not the same deal as it is now. I will gladly give you my royalties from streaming, which is nothing for you to put $5,000 into the release. I don’t care, I don’t, yeah, I don’t care. What are you gonna get, 40 bucks out of the streaming? You know what I mean? I don’t care about that. So it’s not the same world we once lived in. I was signed to Sony in 2005, where at the end of the day, we got an advance and everything, and it all had to get paid back. So we just lived a high life for like two years and then dissolved. That’s not gonna happen here.
The pros are they have the relationships, they’re gonna dump a bunch of money into it. And then if they need to recoup, they can recoup, but they’re also gonna service all of my stuff to many different sync agents, right? So they probably service my stuff to 10 different sync agents once the song comes out. And then they’re also going to, they have a better way of getting your songs onto playlist, into like the streaming playlist. I could go pitch myself and not get a single one. The pitch comes from the label, it’s a whole different world. So that’s another pro.
Yeah. Oh, sorry, I don’t mean to take all the time, but also another pro is that same friend of mine I mentioned the other day, or just a minute ago, who dumped all that money into it, he wasn’t backed up by a label. So all these playlists were botting his song. And so he’s getting on these botted playlists and he has to go out and remove them and remove them. You don’t get that with a label. We’ve never been on a botted playlist ever. It just doesn’t happen.
Kevin: Okay. Yeah, I could see those advantages too. Sort of like a force multiplier where you can kind of like, yeah, you get picked up on playlists or you get, you know, if the label pitches you to kind of like aggregators who can pitch multiple playlists and then the virality and scale, like you said, the top of the hour reach. Yeah, sure. And also the fact that taking on things is just one little unknown individual versus like a label. I mean, a label, even if you’re, to me, even if you’re just like some, you know, “McRecords,” or whatever, just because you look like a label already makes it lookin some ways maybe kind of that credibility. JP raised his hand.
JP: Yeah, sure. Did I? That’s what I did. Or maybe you actually bumped it. You bought, or maybe you actually bought the hand raised, but maybe you actually bought the hand raised. Yeah, I bought the hand, but I wanted to intervene anyway, because some other advantages of signing to labels, if the label is serious enough, they can hook you with some other artists, they can ask some artists to remix your song, or they can ask you to remix some songs from other artists, so you make connections like this. They can invite you to play to some label nights, that’s also a very great thing to meet new people, to have a new audience. So the contacts they have, they can provide you, if it is a serious label, is something which can seriously help you progress in your career. That’s one of the advantages also.
Yeah, and JP on that note, our first single Fine Line came out, and he got Oliver Nelson to remix it. I didn’t know who Oliver Nelson was. It’s one of our biggest streaming songs to this day. It’s still doing a few hundred a week, and that’s not a lot, but for me it’s great. It just keeps doing it. I didn’t know who Oliver was. I would have never had him remix anything, and we signed and they did it. So, yeah.
Kevin: Yeah, for context too, that’s one of the first ways we found Jeff Martin and Visors was from that track Jeff just mentioned on Spotify, a really cool, awesome vibe track, yeah.
CONS OF SIGNING WITH A LABEL
Kevin:What about the cons? Anyone have any? JP has mentioned it. Felix, sure, go ahead.
Felix: Yeah, I would like to jump in on that, if you don’t mind. So, in terms of cons, I would like to bring a little bit of my academic background, because of my own thesis and also my previous graduate project of my bachelor’s, I did some research in terms of how the one main con, which also Jeff did mention a bit, especially for the traditional music labels or large labels out there, is the type of control. I would say this is one of the main cons, especially there are different kinds of controls out there.
I mean, the first one would be contracts. Contracts literally control how the artists go, and especially to major labels out there or the traditional models of such labels, because they have a lot of different powers. Like Jeff did mention that they have the reach, they have the pitch, they have almost everything which can help the artists, but at the same time, the artists themselves cannot do anything because the control is based on the label.
And of course, this is mainly for the traditional model, which nowadays may be a bit more flexible with the help of the Internet and social media, which the artists can gain their control from that. But still, artists can’t do anything if they do not have a decent base on their end. Without a label would be very hard for them. But at the same time, if the label has more control than the artists themselves, the artists cannot do anything unless they receive material from the labels or waiting for the labels to promote for themselves.
Jay: That’s a good point. You can have the best product in the world, but if you haven’t got an audience, then there’s no point. And that’s the issue that I think one of the cons of doing it yourself.
And you’re generally going to rely on some kind of distribution company unless you’re going to literally go to all of the different stores yourself and create an agreement between each store, upload your track along with all the metadata to every single store. You’re going to have to use some type of distributor.
And one of the issues with, let’s just say, for example, you used DistroKid or TuneCore or something like that, you’re going to pay a fee every time you send a release off. You’re not going to have a direct line of communication. You’re not going to be able to pitch directly into Spotify and Beatport like you can through a distributor.
So you’ve got more control, I guess. You’ve got more revenue coming back. Not that any of us get a huge amount, really, from downloads and streams. But I think there’s more cons than there are positives.
Kevin: Oh, you mean going the indie route? Is that what you mean? And hold that thought, too. I think you’re one slide ahead of us. Yeah, we’re going to cover that in the next slide, I think.
JP: That said, regarding the cons of going to a label. So nowadays, it’s a bit different from the way that Felix was describing. Nowadays, many labels, they don’t sign artists who don’t already have some followers. Unless the music is really good, they either sign just a single track because the music, they love it, it’s super good. Or if they want to sign an artist, then the artist already has a big following. He’s already successful. So the artist has more leeway than he used to have like 20 years ago when he was signing to a label. Nowadays.
But regarding the cons, some labels, that’s why the artist when he signs a track or a song to a label has to check what this label is doing. Not signing blank and saying, “Oh, a label wants to sign me. It’s wonderful.” And then nothing happens because some labels, they don’t do any work. They take 50% or so of the royalties, if not more. And they don’t do anything. They just release it. And then crickets. I’ve been there. I’ve signed some tracks to some labels. They don’t even promote it on their own social medias. That would be the bare minimum. I’m not sure that they even send it to some DJ promo pools. That’s also some part of the minimums. Some labels, they don’t do anything. And you say in that case, I better do the job myself, which I do because I do more than some labels.
The artist who goes the indie route and who does self-release and then he does all the promotion, PR, try to find a PR, to pay for a PR, to pay for DJ promo pools, to pay for advertising. Because nowadays you can advertise yourself on Facebook or even TikTok. So that is why doing that is de facto a label.
Kevin: JP, I could see a couple of reasons why maybe a label might not do much for the artist:
1. It could be like you mentioned earlier, if they’re not big enough, they feel like maybe it isn’t worth it.
2. Also just sheer scale, like if they’re doing five releases every couple of weeks.
JP: You also have some scammers there, some labels who sign as many artists as they can. They just put them out and waiting to see if the artist is doing a bit of work. Then they get, as they don’t do any work, they will get some revenues when they just play the numbers.
Wilson: Could I say something please?
You know me a long time, right? And when I began, it makes me old, like 15 or 16 years ago, I was like a mouse in a labyrinth, right? So as an artist, you are in this idea that a label can save you. That’s not the case. And that’s not the role as well of a label. That’s a cool point. I like that. It’s a good point, yeah.
I mean, my job today, I’ve been learning for 10 years and more, and I’m still learning. I took back school to learn more. And during the 10 first years, I don’t believe today that I just understood what that means to be in this industry, right? My job today as an artist is to find someone from a label that will be a teammate, basically, that will understand your universe, that will translate this universe to theirs, that will find the perfect storytelling between their universe and ours. So that’s what I try to do in my own labels.
I mean, yes, we can do videos, we can do everything. But if you don’t have, how could I say that? And it could be even not videos that you shoot yourself, but even free videos, right? Non-copyrighted, sorry. But the fact is, in all ways, as a label, you have to understand your artist. You have to hear your artist. You have to understand the needs of the artist. And the needs are not necessarily, okay, we need money. Because if you don’t have money, and it happens a lot in this industry for a lot of labels, you have time. Even if you are alone, you can give time for a release. You can give skills for an artist. That’s why I took back my studies, to have more skills, right? You can give a lot of things, and you can understand and hear your artist and try to find a way. You can give advice.
And we have to be clear about something. A lot of artists, and I was one of those ones, they don’t are beasts of marketing, right? They usually are pretty bad. And I believe that today, the role of a label is to give an advice. Okay, you are this, you want this. And if we do this, right, if we go this way, and with that storytelling, and with that image for you, and with, you know, modifying a bit your branding, if it needs. But just as an advice, not an obligation. We can help a lot the artists. And it takes a lot of time, actually, for an artist to understand that. It takes a lot of time to a lot of labels to understand that. And I had to go out of the industry to understand that. I had to work as a communication guy for other industries to understand that.
Because the problem today, and you know, you got a lot of people out there saying, oh yeah, I can tell you how, you know, miracle recipe. Oh, you’re gonna be big. That’s not like that. It takes years and years and years to achieve, you know, little by little, some scales in the industry. And, you know, in my sense, that’s very uncommon, an artist that will blow up in six months. And generally, if they blow up in six months, they fall as fast as they came. Yeah, that’s very true. To have a real career. And I believe, so I’m thinking to the big ones, right? Studying their past, you just realize that they had 10, 15 years of, for fuck’s sake, what I’m doing? What am I doing, right? Because the blow up just came with time and track after track after track. And, you know, maybe JP said that, but no. Or one of you, Jeffrey, maybe, that, you know, you meet someone and then someone and then someone, and your network just goes.
And as a label and a small one, because I don’t… So I lead small labels, right? Yeah. Hearing your artists is the key. Phil, you’ve been one, I heard. He came with an idea I didn’t think about and told me, hey, if we do that, what will happen? And I say, okay, we go. And two million streams, right? So that’s great. But I was like, my artists, they know things that I’m not aware of everything, right? I’ve used to work with people. They thought they knew everything, but that’s not like that. The moment you think you know everything, you can stop. You’ve already lost, yeah. You can quit.
And I heard and I’m hearing every artist and I just made a video for one of the compilations, right? To present the tracks. And I get to pass and I sent to all artists, right? And they told me, no, that can’t be. Okay, I do another one. You know what I mean? So that’s, I believe that’s more a share with people. And as an artist, I need that.
And I’m okay with JP. When, you know, you are on a label that seems to be quite big and they, you know, you are the small one and they don’t give a shit about you. Yeah. So better to be with a little label that will understand who you are, what you want, your needs, and that will try to think about maybe you will not have the same numbers, but at least you are creating something coherent.
And I believe I said everything because it’s been long :-). Sorry.
Kevin: Yeah, no problem.
Jeff: Wilson, you touched on a lot of there. That relationship between you and the label, it’s got to be, you know, reciprocal. Like we believe in the same thing and like, you know, our label has a strategy and it’s years in the making. It’s like, we’re going to dip, right? We’re going to have so many listeners at this point, then we’re going to dip down and we’re going to go up and down and up and down. And you have to have a strategy and you kind of have to believe in the same thing. And, you know, so yeah, I agree with that.
Kevin: That’s what I was going to say, guys, to recap.
Yeah. So, you know, it sounds like relationships and kind of just moving to the last point there in the slide. So how can you facilitate success? Set yourself up for success if you’re a producer looking to sign with a new label. It sounds like from what, based on what Wilson was just saying, they’re kind of just making sure that kind of like in a relationship, like dating and marriage kind of thing, like making sure that both parties, A and B, you know, in terms of the relationship are looking for the same things. Yeah, Phil, please.
Phil: So I just want to say this. I think there’s a couple ways you can set yourself up and this is from personal experience. The first thing is if you’re dead set on getting on a label, you need to be very comfortable with being told no and being rejected because it will happen a lot. You will send out emails, you will pitch songs, you’ll talk to people and they’ll be like, this doesn’t fit, this doesn’t work, and you can’t take that personally. Not everybody loves every single song that’s released. I mean, there’s 100,000 songs released a day on Spotify. So it’s like not everything is going to be amazing or everybody’s cup of tea. You just kind of have to deal with that and just not take it, you know, take it to heart. If you believe in your track and you believe in your music, you will find the right spot for it. You just have to keep pushing it, you know, pushing it out there. Over and over. Over and over, exactly.
And I think the second thing too, and this is another thing that happened personally for me, so I feel comfortable speaking about it, is that you need to be very professional in how you speak to people and like being able to answer emails and do things that are, you know, you want to be a reliable partner if you want to find a reliable partner. Like it’s, there are a couple of artists that I won’t name because I don’t want to be that guy, but I’ve sent them emails trying to give them opportunities and stuff like that and just crickets, you know, ghosted. And then they’ll circle back like two weeks later, you know, what happened to this? And it’s like, well, you didn’t even do the bare minimum, so I had to pass on you. It’s, you know, it’s nothing personal, but it’s my reputation too as well as yours. Like you got to be willing to play ball at the bare minimum. So I think just having good business and professional sense and also not being afraid to be rejected. is the best ways to kind of get yourself prepared to find a label.
Jeff: Or Phil, you just learn it. You learn how to you learn. You’re like, wait, I’m getting turned down over and over and over. And you just like, OK, because you may not be ready for the rejection, but it’s going to come. So you just have to keep going with that.
Wilson: It’s every day we are rejecting.
Jay: Yeah. EML, our A&R guy is so awesome. He’s really, really good. So because he’ll CC me in to most of the emails when we get a demo. And he’s brilliant. You know, if we get we get somebody that sends something and I listen to it, I think that’s awful. Ryan won’t say that. He’ll be so, so kind to them and he’ll give them really constructive feedback and he’ll tell them what they need to do, what it is they’re not doing.
And I think something else as well to set yourself up for success is, and this might be controversial, but I in this day and age, I wouldn’t really pay too much of attention to how you’re doing on “Spotifraud.”
Kevin: Because, well, not to interrupt you, but just as a case in point, we had like fans and I used to be embarrassed by this, but I think we have like twenty seven freaking followers looking for the other day. So, yeah. Yeah. And I think we’re a successful still on the rise, but company, you know. So, yeah. Yeah.
Jay: Yeah the data, you can’t trust it. Everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. You can come across a track that you’ve never heard. You look at it and you think, oh, well, it’s got two million streams. But immediately, immediately, the first thing you think they’re fake. Nobody trusts the data on Spotify anymore. It’s just it’s dead. It’s dead in the water. That’s a whole meetup topic of itself right here. Streaming in the swamp. But don’t be don’t be.
Yeah. You know, if you’re only getting a couple of hundred plays a week, don’t be put off by that. Don’t expect big things.
Tobias: I mean, can I flag up something a bit off? I don’t know if it’s off topic.
I think what everybody’s saying about the expectations of a label is really interesting because I’ve worked with a couple of labels and my expectation was sky high. It was like something sent from heaven. I expected so much. And it turned out they weren’t going to promote. I was going to do the promotion. I had to put in the funds and so forth. So the good thing for me was that it added a lot of kudos just to say you’re on a label, just to have it on your page. So you feel this kind of burst of enthusiasm and energy and you get a very noticeable difference when you talk about your work when it’s on a label. I mean, I don’t know if it’s still true. I think it’s still true. So I mean, I’ve always thought that that’s the main pro.
But if you pick a good label, I think if a label really understands an artist, then it is that symbiosis that I think Wilson was referring to. You know, you have to have a long term relationship because I think what Jeff was saying, Jeff was saying that, you know, when you work with a really professional label, you’re in a very complex machine. You’ve shortcutted your route. You’ve just jumped on this luxury cruiser and it’s going to take you places. You don’t have to do much. You don’t need to steer the ship. You’ll be an absolute fool if you try and take over the rudder or the tiller. You know what I mean? You don’t do that. You let people do their stuff. And then they in turn expect you to deliver your side of the bargain. So well said. Your tunes.
And I just want to make one other point, again, slightly off, maybe on topic, but the relationship has to change over time. I think if you’re an independent artist and you think you’ve got it all sussed, you know, this is you’re doomed to disappointment because nobody’s ever got it all sussed. I saw a really good quote from Laurie Anderson. She said, as an artist, there’ll come a point where you think you found your voice. You’ve been working for years. You’ve got to a point where this everything you do is kind of, yeah, this is really me. I’m really in the flow. And she made this really good point. She said, just because you think you found your voice doesn’t mean it’s the best one for you. And I think that’s where the label really, really click in to say this is how something we can go with, you know. And then that symbiosis can really click into action because you may be going on a path that’s like, it’s really me, man. I’m really feeling this, you know, but actually you’re just going way off on a tangent. And it might be good for you spiritually, but then you have to weigh that with whether it’s commercially of interest to a label and so forth. So I think this dynamic has to be able to change over time. So I think a good label has to, if it’s a good relationship, then it has to do anything. A good label will understand that things will mutate over time and maybe the artist will turn into something they don’t like. Maybe the artist will turn into something they could never have dreamed of. You know, I remember Neil Young got sued for the album Arc Well, didn’t he, by his record company, because he didn’t sound like Neil Young, you know, this kind of stuff. But I love this, you know, I love the fact that things get so kind of, there’s so much conflict that can be built into that relationship, but yeah, I don’t know if that’s on topic.
Jeff: Well, I have a point to that real quick, if you don’t mind. Yeah. I have a point to that.
So when we left Sony because it wasn’t working out, I spent a full year looking for a label and all the labels were saying, nothing you do is, like, it doesn’t go together because we work with so many different features and I write for the features. They were like, nothing is cohesive. We don’t know how to brand you. And then when I found ICA, the selling point to him was that nothing was cohesive. Wow. So he said, keep doing what you do. And because I was like, well, I’m going to put it together as a band and get a singer. And he said, no, keep doing this. And we’ve got this plan for the next few years. And so I got lucky because all the other labels were like, you need a sound and a branding and all this. And I was just like, we don’t have that. So yeah, so just to that point, yeah.
Kevin: Yeah. So really, I think you guys are going with the fit. Yeah, really comfortable hand and glove kind of fit thing. Tobias, what you said reminded me of what Jay said earlier too about where future-proofing and realizing that things are going to evolve and can you evolve together?
SELF-RELEASING
Kevin: Yeah, so I figure, yeah, maybe we can kind of jump ahead to kind of shift here, big shift from label to self-releasing. So maybe opening up the floor for some of you folks that have done kind of, I think Tobias and JP and probably Phil have done, actually Phil, because you were one of the main contributors to an awesome joint article where we had like eight or nine producers a few years back, remember, for the Electrofans blog where we talked about, that was kind of the brainchild of this kind of whole meetup too, like what are the advantages of going your own route in terms of releasing versus the label? So yeah, maybe Phil, we can start off with you. So what would you say are the most important things to keep in mind? And well, that’s kind of a big one first. So yeah, what do you think are the most important things to keep in mind if you’re going to self-release versus going with a label?
SELF-RELEASING: MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND
Phil: So I think the first thing to keep in mind is that you have to remember if you decide to self-release, you are on an island, you’re by yourself. There’s no promo team. There’s no sync team. There’s no publishing team. There’s no, you know, it’s just you. You have to fill all those roles. You have to make the music. You have to promote the music. You have to push the music out to, you know, you have to find DJs to promo it out. You have to find sync agents to pitch it to. Everything, you have to watch your own budget. That’s another thing that Jeff properly is very important. You have to be able to stay on budget for the release if you have a budget, which you should have a budget that, you know, by the way.
But it’s like, I think a lot of people kind of see a couple cases. Like I know, for instance, in hip hop, there’s a very famous case, Russ, the artist, you know, he, you know, started just putting songs out on SoundCloud years ago, like 10, 15 years ago, just putting out like a song a day or whatever. And, you know, just use that to build momentum. But he was doing everything himself. He was A&Ring all his songs himself. He was making his songs himself. He was going through and setting up his tours when he was self paying for his tours himself, selling tickets, all that. Like he was the team there.
And it’s like, I think one of the things that for myself when it comes to self-releasing is that I enjoy being able to kind of do those things on my own from time to time, not on every track. But like if there’s a track that I don’t think fits a label or fits, you know, it doesn’t have a spot, I’ll put together a quick little video. I’ll throw, you know, some promo under it, run some ads, whatever, and just let it out there and see what happens. But I think if you’re trying to do that from a 100% all-in-all me standpoint, you kind of need to strategize more than just putting stuff out there and seeing what sticks because that is honestly not fun. I’ll say it from experience. It is not fun. It can be very, very hard work, very depressing at times because your music is like, you know, for all of us, I know you guys get it because you’re all producers or you’re all involved. Like it’s like our children, you know, it’s a piece of ourselves. And whenyou put it out there and you don’t, it doesn’t really hit, that is a terrible feeling, you know, because it’s like I put everything into this and nobody’s vibing with it. So you have to be very confident in yourself and your sound in order to make that happen when it comes to self-releasing.
So I think doing it 100% of the time. Now, if this was me 10 years ago, I’d say just do what you want. But, you know, me now, I think it’s better to have a mix of like, let me self-release the stuff I want to release that maybe doesn’t fit the label. And then let me find a place that can, you know, service my other stuff, the stuff that will help me find new fans, that will get me to a community, that will help me be able to start cultivating my own, you know, kind of area.
Because I feel like a lot of bigger artists, they almost have their own like subculture behind them, you know? They have diehard fans. They have people who maybe discover them through another artist who now have gravitated into their area. And I think even if you’re not a huge artist, that’s the kind of thing you want. You want people to find you, to find your music, and then you want them to kind of hang around and gravitate.
And so it’s just, it kind of becomes a numbers game at the end of the day. Like if things aren’t reaching where you want them to, and I know that sounds terrible, like not everything’s a metric, not everything needs to be quantified. But, you know, you have to be able to sustain yourself and like live a life as well.
So if you’re releasing a ton of money and you don’t have like a regular job or something like that to fall back on, you know, you can’t do that forever. Like nobody can live with no money. That’s just how life is, unfortunately.
So it’s like, yeah, I think you need to realize that you are the team, you are the label when you self-release. You are the only one, like if you take a day off, that’s a day off that nothing’s getting done, you know? If things happen, if you’re sick or whatever, like you have to realize there’s no team that’s going to be working behind you pushing this so when you come back healthy, you’re good to go.
Like everything is on you and it’s a lot of weight. It’s a lot of responsibility. But it also, if you’re crazy like me, it’s kind of fun sometimes. So it’s like you kind of have to weigh, do I want to, you know, deal with this or do I want to find a label who I trust who will do these things for me that, you know, and kind of go that way.
So you have options, but I think you need to definitely realize that like you are in your own boat. You are the captain when you’re self-releasing.
Kevin: Stand or fall, yeah.
Jeff: Yeah, Phil, that one and only song that we self-released, I didn’t realize how much went into self-releasing because the label’s done it all. And when they asked me for assets, right, so they say, we need the masters. So when the label’s like, we need the masters, the bio between you and the feature, all that, I was like, that’s a lot, man. I do that every time.
And then there’s the added part, all the other stuff with distro and stuff. I was like, that’s enough. I did it once. I’m not going to do it again.
Kevin: I like that. It’s kind of like starting swimming in the Pacific Ocean. You get hit by one like little, like undertow, that was me the one time I jumped in the Pacific to try to do some swimming. I’m like, okay, that was exactly like, that’s enough.
I think, Phil, you kind of covered the pros and cons together. Like the advantages, you can do your own thing, the freedom. But the cons are, as Jeff just said, oh, you got to do everything yourself.
PART 2 (with Embyrblume)
Kevin: Hey, everybody, welcome to this part two of our latest Electrofans Connect meetup.
Embyrblume: Hello.
Kevin: Yeah, our topic today is label versus self-release for electronic music producers. We have here back again for part two, we have Felix Myni8hte from Hong Kong, and we have the artist formerly known as Katie Seven, now known as Embyrblume. It still says Katie Seven.
Embyrblume: I gotta change that.
Kevin: Yeah. You gotta update all the stuff, right? So she’s now known as Embyrblume, formerly known as Katie Seven, dynamic, deep-oriented, melodic producer from Tokyo. So we’re looking forward to getting her take on indie versus… Oh, there you go. Now it’s official.
Embyrblume: Yeah. Well, I haven’t been using Zoom.
Kevin: That’s awesome. Yeah.
Yeah, so I figured we could kind of start off with a little bit of an intro. So Embyrblume, can you maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and what you’ve been up to musically?
Embyrblume: Well, lately I’ve been just making music a lot. I just released an album that was a self-release.
Kevin: Perfect for our talk. Yeah. Okay. I guess this session is just me, you, and I guess… Felix, yeah. Felix is listening mostly. Yeah, you saw us chat too. Yeah, he was on earlier.
Yeah, I guess everyone that’s going to be listening, I guess Felix… So Felix was on our first call. We’ll put both these up on YouTube. Katie, I’m definitely looking forward to… Yeah, most definitely getting your take on this topic, because that’s what I figured. I mean, I think you have some… Yeah, I’m pretty sure you have some experience with different labels, too. And we can kind of get that, too, to kind of like counterbalance. But I know I checked out some of your Bandcamp, and that was really cool. And we talked about Bandcamp in our first session earlier today, too.
Yeah, so it’s going to be great to get your take. So what I’ll do is I’ll share my screen right here, too. I have like a PowerPoint thing. And yeah, we started off with, you know, what are the options for… I thought it would be good to start from the basics. What are the options if you’re a music producer releasing tracks? And I figured they’re basically like four or so:
Label
Self-release
Bandcamp
offering your music for free downloads, mix of label and self-release, or create your own label.
Lot of the people in our earlier call too, yeah, they had experience creating their own label.
Felix, I know he has his own couple different labels, Summer Melody and Newhouse. Katie, did you ever do your own label? I was kind of curious actually.
Embyrblume: My own label, did you say?
Kevin: Yeah, have you created your own label sort of in the past or no, not yet?
Embyrblume: Well, not really a label. My self-release has been just under my name on the Bandcamp, so not really a label. However, I think a couple of songs that I released from that label on the Beatport, I think it might be under a label. And I think if you check on Spotify and see who released the song, it should be under a label. So I’m not really running a label, but I’m kind of prepared to do so if I wanted to.
Kevin: Okay, as Embyrblume, you mean, right?
Embyrblume: No, it has a label name, but it’s not like I’m publicly doing it. Like it’s under a label name, but it’s kind of unofficial.
Kevin: Oh, I think I understand. Yeah, could I ask what you picked for the name? Sorry, I was reading the Felix chat.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, could I ask what you decided to pick for the name, the label name? It’s in the sky.
Okay, so that’s just kind of a name that you picked in case that one of the outlets required you to have a label then, is that it?
Embyrblume: Well, okay, when you do a self-release for streaming service, this is only for the Beatport, but under Beatport, for example, if you use SoundCloud for self-release, it’s going to be under, I think it’s called “repost.” That’s their service name. And if you go to Beatport, it’s going to be released under repost. So I don’t like that, you know?
Kevin: Oh, sorry. So you’re saying that if you just do your own self-release and you don’t have a label, then it just puts “repost.” So you wanted to pick some name rather than some just generic. Oh, okay. I didn’t know that.
Embyrblume: For example, if you release under DistroKid, it’s going to be released under DistroKid. You know what I’m saying?
Kevin: Oh, yeah. I noticed that within the last some, I’m not sure how long, but the last few to several months, yeah, like on SoundCloud, yeah. Like, for example, there was a DJ from the Netherlands where she did a really cool DJ mix for us. And yeah, the artist name, Cynthia Laclé was her name. But I was expecting to see “Cynthia Laclé,” but it said something like some other name, it must have been the distribution company name, yeah, some Dutch name. I was like, what is that?
Okay, I got you. Okay, sure. I can see why you’d want to do that then.
Embyrblume: So I wanted to, like, it just doesn’t look professional, you know?
Kevin: Sure, sure.
Embyrblume: So I wanted to use a distributor that lets me set up my own label name. So I’m not using DistroKid, for example, because they won’t let me do that.
Kevin: Okay. Yeah, we talked about that, too. And that’s coming up ahead there, too. Yeah. So as far as releasing with a label, yeah, these are the things we asked folks in the earlier panel. I think you’ve got at least some, you’ve done some releases on, I think, some European labels, was it in the past or some labels, I think, you have?
Embyrblume: I did a release from a British label and Greek label, I think.
Kevin: And yeah, as far as like maybe thinking back to that, or if you were to try to go with another label again, what do you think might be some things that producers should look out for in a perspective label?
Embyrblume: Okay, say that again, please.
Kevin: Yeah, so I guess if you were giving advice to, say, a producer that was thinking, oh, maybe I should look for a label, what do you think would be some things that would be appealing? And I think tied to that, too, is like how much does size matter? Like we discussed earlier that, you know, maybe in some real good cases, going with a smaller or maybe not always a tiny label, but like a mid-sized label could be more actually a better thing than the bigger ones, because there they don’t care about you as much, and they just want to focus on volume, and they kind of just cover, spend more of their time and resources on the big name artists. That’s what some of our panelists earlier said, yeah.
So if you were going, say if you had maybe not an Embyrblume, but say that you wanted to do like a dance or a techno track again, or advice to someone else, what are some of the things that you would look for that would make you want to sign with a label? Okay. More from your past experience too, that there were positive things about it.
Embyrblume: I think there’s a few possible cases: If you were just beginning, releasing on any label would be good because you’re just kind of learning how to connect with a release, I mean, connect with a label to make a release.
I remember like first time signing for the label, and I was pretty excited about just actually having a sign, you know, like with the label.
And I think I did a special post about it, you know.
But after many releases, depending on where you’re heading, I think if you were, for example, doing melodic techno, and if you sign with a big label known for the melodic techno, I think it could be a boost for your career, you know.
Even if they don’t treat you like, you know, your big artists, you know, they don’t have time for you, that’s probably true.
But still, you get to put that in your resume, like, oh, I’ve released from this label. That’s a big thing, you know, like it’s a big credibility.
And also, I think it’s something I might be working sometime soon, I hope, is a medium-sized label where you actually can work with the label, you know, like the label boss might want to kind of guide you, you know, like sort of like label boss is like A&R at the same time, like developing the artists by signing him up, signing him or her up, and have a close relationship with the label might be a really, really good place for an artist to grow, you know.
Kevin: Yeah, exactly. And you know, yeah, these are some of the similar points that we covered in the earlier session too, yeah, that really, you know, relationship building can be more important than money too, or maybe sometimes going with that bigger label.
Embyrblume: Yeah.
Kevin: What do you think would be the most important things you’d want to have clear before you sign with a label? Like, for example, expectations on promotion, like the budget, the artwork, because we covered that too. And one of our main panelists from the earlier session, JP Lantieri, that’s kind of why I created this meetup too, because he mentioned before, like he had signed with some, without mentioning any names, like maybe fairly big name labels. And he said that he thought they did very little to, maybe even nothing in terms of, you know, promotions for, promotion for him.
And Jeff Martin, who was on the call earlier too, said that he’d rather that a label go ahead and take his royalties if they agreed to a certain amount that they would spend on the promotion. So yeah, any thoughts on that?
Embyrblume: I totally agree that labels don’t do much for you in terms of promotion. A lot of people who are in a label, they are producers themselves. And I think they are more focused on growing their label than like guiding an artist or promoting that artist.
I felt that and I understood that too. But still I’ve been doing it because it’s a credibility thing, you know, like it’s easy to self-release. But if you were self-releasing, I think, somebody’s got to be like, from the third person view, critically looking at your work, you know, I think that’s important for an artist to grow. And having somebody say, yeah, okay, let’s release this, is a kind of a milestone for an artist. So that’s why I’ve been doing that. And even though they didn’t do much, still it’s on my resume. And I’m just waiting for a label to actually believe in me so we can work together. That’s the kind of relationship I’m looking for with a label. And I maybe found someone lately and looking forward to work with him.
Kevin: Awesome.
Yeah. Look forward to seeing that. Yeah. Those are some of the exact points that we brought up earlier too. And then one person on the call earlier mentioned how like if he couldn’t find a good fit for a particular track for the label, then maybe he’d go ahead and do a self-release. And then Felix said that maybe, well, you just have to shop around and find it’s a matter of the match.
Yeah. I feel like all that, any relationship can be just like kind of like dating, you know, it’s like it’s, you know, professional relationship as well as personal, you know, it’s really whatever clicks, you know, both parties, if they have certain things in common, interests and values. And, you know, my brother actually said one time people move forward together or, you know, you grow apart. So it’s, I like that.
Yeah. But, you know, it could be, that was one of the key topics that came up in the first session. Yeah. It was the power and certainly I agree with that too, the value of relationships.
Yeah. And also growing together too. Yeah. You learn together and that was a great point too, Katie, about if you’re just starting off, maybe you don’t need to be so picky about a label. Just you want to, maybe like if you’re like a young kid, like 18, 20 year old kid, just getting your first professional job. Okay. Maybe you want the perfect job, but maybe you want to get something on the resume.
So what do you think might be some of the pros of working with a label in your opinion and the cons?
Embyrblume: Well, it’s the credibility I think, as I said. Yeah, you mentioned. Yeah. And I think it’s also a boost for your artistic journey because you’re not just making a song by yourself and releasing it. can’t just finish that cycle all by yourself. But releasing a song from a label means somebody critically looks at your work and says, let’s release this. That’s a milestone. You do that many times to grow, I think. That’s an awesome point, yeah. That’s true. It’s different just doing your bedroom producer when someone…
Kevin: That’s a super great point, yeah. Because on your own, you can have your own release it whenever the hell you want it, right? If you want to take two months, three months, three years. But a label release schedules, they have their own. It’s kind of like when I do these meetups, I can try to accommodate different things. But like I mentioned earlier, I can’t accommodate every single time zone in the world. So I have to pick one, maybe two set things. And then if you want to join, you have to jump into when the company is doing their event. Or in this case for Electronic Connect, or if you’re a label, you have to accommodate that. And also the critical, yeah. And if they say also, well, I think this track is like two or three minutes too long. Can we trim that, maybe create the radio edit?
Phil Barker, PhuturePhil earlier, brought up what I think is one of the most powerful points for anyone in the music and creative field to keep in mind is to not take things personally, right? And to me, I think one of the things with success is the pro versus the amateur is just really, yeah, being able to take that constructive criticism. And you don’t have to be like a capitalistic corporate sellout, but you have to kind of look at your work in terms of like a market kind of thing. I think if artists want to make money, you have to change your viewpoint, I kind of feel like, yeah.
But yeah, so what are the cons, the negative things of working with a label, do you think?
Embyrblume: Okay, for one thing, I think, especially artists just starting out, I think they try to take advantage of you. For example, some of the labels that I worked with in the past, in the beginning of my career, they were like, hey, I want to do a remix for us. And they were like, you know, like do it for free, basically. You do it, right, kind of thing, you know, which I declined, but, you know, because they want somebody to conveniently produce amount of track so that the labels grow, you know, like, you know what I’m saying? Like they want to release, for example, I don’t know, compilation of an album by many artists or something. And to do that, enough artists have to sign on, right? Hmm, okay. So they care about their label, obviously. They don’t care about each individual artist, what they want. So that’s one thing.
The other, as I guess you mentioned from the prior meetings, they might not just do promotion at all. They just release and do one social post and that’s done. You know, like no promotions at all. Like I’ve seen many of that.
Yeah, so if an artist is looking to try to piggyback on like a big name, like, because a lot of times, of course, it always depends, but some labels have probably, well, it depends. Some artists have many thousand followers too, but like a lot of artists have like maybe, say if you were an artist looking for a label and say a label had like four or 5,000 followers and you had like, you know, 1,000 or two, then you would hope that they would offer that and just do that. But I guess a lot of times they don’t do that, make posts through their network. Yeah. So you can’t take advantage of that, yeah. I think if you have a lot of followers and have a good social presence, they want to work with that basically. And if you don’t, I think it’s much less attractive for them to promote you. Basically they work more with more promotable personalities and they might do some promotion for that but not for everybody. That’s understandable if they have many artists, they want to work with the one that might work. That’s pretty understandable but you might not be that person that they choose to promote. So that’s the con I think. If you’re chosen to be one of the promotable ones, I think that might work great but if not, it doesn’t work.
Kevin: Okay, so maybe that would be part of the last one there. What are some best ways to set yourself up for success looking to sign with a new label? Maybe making sure you’re on the same page with everything I guess, right?
Embyrblume: That would be one thing. I think this social presence is a big thing I think. Having a professional photo and I don’t know, logo or homepage, just have a strong presence. Even if you don’t have big followers, I think it’s important. Even with small followers, make your social presence treated as your professional thing. Do posts and things as if you were a major artist, I think.
Kevin: That’s awesome Katie. I think I just read something the other day in a psychological setting or just self-wellness thing, just talking about self-talk, whether you’re in music or other things too. Sort of the point I guess being create the life that you want to lead and tell yourself. I think that would work so importantly for people, creatives like us in the music and arts fields of really acting as if you’re already the success that you want to see down the road. Say if you have 200 followers, act like you’re a freaking rock star.
Embyrblume: Yeah, exactly. I like that idea. Yeah, act like you have 200, act like you have 2 million or 200,000 followers when you got 200. And people can see that, like whoa, and then you grow and grow. And it’s not all just fluffy attitude, but it’s just I think confidence. A lot of that is when you have confidence and you believe in what you’re doing too.
Kevin: And I think that was a key thing from our first talk again, yeah, which really makes sense that it’s important when you work with a label to be on that same page with the A&R team. And ideally, yeah, you want to find a label that can help develop you as the artist too, yeah. Here at Electrofans, yeah, with Connect, that’s what I’m always all about. Quid pro quo is, I mean, I really believe in that. People, something for something, people help each other. That’s what the whole thing is, you know, as you see, you know, the Connect thing. Like grow, you grow together and learn and collab. Yeah.
Okay. And yeah, kind of jumping to the next point, which I think it sounds like is really heavily your bag at the moment with your Embyrblume new identity, right? So self-releasing, what are the most important things to keep in mind, do you think? And then how do you go about doing that? You know, do you put it on, for your case, I know it’s Bandcamp without a label doing it for you.
Embyrblume: Well, what’s important? I think maybe just enjoying it is the most important thing, I think. Because I think the big thing about self-releasing for me is it’s just fun. You know, like for me, I feel like a kid again,you know, like making things by myself, you know, drawing pictures on the board. It’s just like making songs. You made a song and you’re satisfied with it and you make artwork for it. You decide on your releasing date. It’s fun, you know? Just enjoyable.
So, and also I did my last album from Bandcamp. It made more money than Spotify ever made for me. It’s only listened to by like 500 times or so. It’s not like, for example, streaming, you can’t buy like a million play or something like that, and you get a little bit of money. You might not even get money out of that. But people bought it, and it made me more money than streaming ever did.
Kevin: That’s ironic, too, because Tobias Zaldua on our panel earlier, who I think you might have some things in common with, in terms of esoteric aspects, I think you and Tobias, and just that you guys are doing, he’s involved with film documentaries, and he’s a singer and songwriter, and a lot of creative stuff. And that’s interesting, because he brought that point up. I think what he was trying to say was like, I don’t understand why some artists don’t just use Bandcamp. They try to go on Spotify. Yeah, because I think, too, I mean, I haven’t really, I’m not a producer, I’m more of a promoter in a music company via Electrofans, but I’ve worked with many producers, electronic music people and labels. And so I feel like I learn a lot kind of by observation. But yeah, it seems to me like Spotify, like you said, in order to make, say, a couple thousand dollars, or what is that, like a couple tens of thousands of yen, you need to have like hundreds of thousands, or even probably millions, yeah, of streams.
So yeah, Bandcamp, I checked your Bandcamp out recently, and what I like, too, is they show like the little thumbnails, you know, the people that support you, and it’s like Embyrblume is supported by, and they show like that little grid, you know, the faces of the people. I think what it is is sort of like, would you say it’s sort of like a Patreon kind of thing, where people, they feel good, they’re liking the music, but they’re supporting you as that artist, right?
Embyrblume: Yeah, I think so, because I’m not good with numbers, so I’m not sure if my numbers are correct, but I think they said something about maybe 10,000 new songs uploaded every day. Yeah, exactly. And that’s like one year total release from like 90s. It’s now being released every day. Yeah. So your song don’t come, really. It’s just like a sea of songs.
Yeah. And lately also I realized that some songs are becoming really good by AI, that before when I heard, when I shared the music made by AI, I would be like, oh, this is AI. It was so easy to tell. But now it’s getting hard. I’d be like, wow, this is a really good song. Wait a minute. Maybe it’s AI, you know? That’s how good they are now.
Kevin: Wow. Yeah, we touched on some AI earlier, and that’s going to be one of our future topics too, is maybe you can help us out and join on that too to get your music creation AI. That’s interesting.
Embyrblume: Yeah, it’s crazy. So you have to like tell your stories or you don’t matter really because there’s like 10,000 uploads every day.
Yeah. I mean, you’re completely buried, you know? Yeah. It’s like promos. I mean, I get, I really may have to unsubscribe. I mean, probably because I just subscribe to different promos, but I just get flooded with, yeah, and it’s like…
Kevin: Oh, yeah, me too. I don’t like all of them anymore. It’s kind of like if I’m not really in a position, like right now I’m thinking I’m sort of taking a break from, I may take a little break. I think our last Soundscapes was maybe about a month ago, but it just takes a lot of work and it’s sort of like I may take a few months off.
What I’d like to do is try to get a few, which I’m sure I could get some takers for some cool DJ mixes. Maybe we can get an Embyrblume mix, DJ mix too, you know, maybe sometime that’d be cool. But it’s like if I’m not looking at the moment to put together a mix, I’m kind of like a… I think sometimes with labels too, isn’t this the case that if their release schedule is full, that’s one reason why artists don’t hear back or it takes them months and months. It’s kind of like the timing, like if they’re looking, maybe an actively looking for, say they want to do like a tech house release in July, right? Or a trance release by the end of June.
And if it just so happens, I’ve heard this about like people that do like professional musicians who like do like work for like commercials, you know, TV music, you know, and like movies, scripts, you know, soundtracks and stuff. It’s like when they’re doing their thing, then you have to kind of like, your worlds have to collide at that time. It’s sort of like sometimes me with Electrofans podcast. It’s like when I’m between things, I’m kind of like, and I may miss some really good things, but it’s kind of like when you, you have to be ready to jump when the, that’s a big part of being a pro too. You just being able to seize an opportunity, you know, when it’s there, you know?
Embyrblume: Yeah.
Kevin: So what might be some of the pros and cons? I think we kind of covered that, but you mentioned the pros. Yeah. The pleasure and the joy. You can feel like you’re a kid and it’s a lot of fun, but what are some of the cons or challenges do you think of doing the self-releasing route?
Embyrblume: The cons, I think if you, well, I don’t know, I guess you have to do everything by yourself. That could be a con for somebody. It certainly isn’t easy. It’s difficult for sure.
Kevin: I know, I know.
Embyrblume: Yeah, I guess that’s the con. I’m doing basically a mix of the self-release and label release. As Embyrblume, I released my first song from a label, which you heard from, I think you did, it was Electrofans Connect. You picked my song.
Kevin: Yeah, for the Listening Lounge.
Embyrblume: Yes, that was on Electrofans. Yeah, I couldn’t make it.
Kevin: Yeah, was that like for Spain? Were they from a Spanish label or something?
Embyrblume: Yeah, it was a Spanish label.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah. I think that’s really cool that they, I feel like maybe took a chance on you because that was really a really raw, cutting edge, like rough edge experimental sound that a label would take a chance on you. It sounds like it was a cool label.
Embyrblume: Yeah, I think that song was quite experimental. I talked with many curators and there was, many of them were saying that’s too experimental for my playlist kind of thing. But I think it was the right kind of sound for that label.
Kevin: Exactly, yeah.
Embyrblume: And if your label exclusively releases that organic type of sound, DJs buy, for example, 10 songs from that label and it works together, you know? However, the other train of thought is to have more repertoire because having all the same sound is kind of boring, you know? And you don’t get to grow as a label.
So I think a lot of big labels who are like really top labels, I think oftentimes they have their own color and they’ve already established themselves. They tend to take a chance on some new sound sometime, I think. It’s my opinion. Sometimes, but maybe other labels or some labels, they kind of feel like they’re known for certain sounds, so they don’t want to deviate from that too much.
Like some of the, maybe like some of the playlist people that you push, you’re like, oh, that’s sort of Jura, that’s too cutting edge. But other people would be open. Yeah, again, I think it’s finding that right fit. I think maybe medium tier labels or lower tier labels, they’re more strictly same sound, I think, because they’re still developing their brand.
But I think if you become like a top level, I don’t know, for example, I don’t know the name. It’s okay. Let’s say Armada, Anjuna, Black Hole Recordings, thinking of big labels. Okay, like when you’re listening to the new songs from big labels, sometimes you’re pleasantly surprised. You know what I’m saying? Like, wow, this is cool. It’s not exactly the same as their typical release, but it fits, but it’s still fresh. You know, they take chances on songs like that, in my opinion.
Kevin: Yeah, it’s funny because I mean, I admit, like I used to listen to, like every week they come out with a new podcast, like Armada, like Armin van Buuren’s or Above and Beyond. But the times I’ve listened to some of the stuff from like Anjuna, kind of like, yeah, this kind of sounds like pretty samey, samey sounding to me. So to me, it’s sort of like, in my opinion, maybe the opposite of your opinion there. Maybe like to me, the bigger names are kind of same old junk. It’s just like commodity to get the product out. And maybe the smaller or middle labels have more diversity.
Although to that point, to your point, yeah, actually a lot of promos I get from the smaller to mid-size. Yeah, their stuff does sound really, which to me, that’s one of the reasons I just hit X. If it sounds like run of the mill, another boring melodic thing. Okay, okay. To me, a criteria, like in some senses, I feel like maybe I am kind of an A&R person. To me, it’s got to stand out. Yeah, have some unique individual voice and identity.
And that reminds me, yeah, again, of your track, “Sword of Jura.” I remember when I played it for the Listening Lounge audience, I think you saw some of the video of that, right? People are like, wow, that really resonated with people because I think it was something really different. And it’s kind of like when you watch a TV show or a movie that’s really kind of jarring, you know? Like, “what did I just listen to? What did I just see,” you know? But it’s unique because it creates like that feeling in you.
Yeah. Okay, yeah. Are there any useful tips that you might be able to share of some things? So it sounds like you had some really nice success with Bandcamp. I mean, could you have shared anyone tuning in maybe some tips for success on doing your own release on Bandcamp, maybe? Or in general?
Embyrblume: Well, I think, well, I’ve released from Bandcamp a few times, but this was the first time I actually had a strategy, sort of plans for the release. Before I was like, yay, release. I was like doing that. But now I was like, okay, I’m going to start promoting it like a month in advance. And I was saying like one month before the actual release date, I was start saying on my socials, hey, I’m working on albums. And this is what the album is about. And I couldn’t show how I made it. But now I’m thinking I will be showing how I’m making too for the next ones. You know, like, and just sort of, well, not very, you know, it’s not like, you know, 1000 people are like, yeah, let’s go. But like, still few people are showing interest and kind of building expectation. Oh, wow, what’s this new album is about? Kind of curiosity and going to see more kind of feeling.
And also I did the like a listening party thing that was kind of interesting for me when I did it. Because it was first time for me to completely listen to the whole album. Because I was happy with like, I celebrated when each song was complete. But when I listened to the whole album as an album, you know, I was like, wow, it actually works as an album. That’s great.
Kevin: Was that – did you do that at like a record store in Tokyo? Or did you do that online or the listening preview party?
Embyrblume: It’s on Bandcamp. It’s, they can do that. They can set that up for an artist to do that. Yes, yes, yes. And it’s you can actually do so pretty easily, which I didn’t know, you know, I was so nervous doing it.
Kevin: But like, so is it kind of like, have you ever done like, have you ever done like a YouTube video premiere where you kind of pre-upload it and you pick the time and then it says, countdown 10, 9, 8, 7 and launch? Is it sort of like live like previews? It sounds like that.
Embyrblume: Not exactly the same. I’ve never done a YouTube premiere. But in Bandcamp, you’ve already uploaded your music and the entire album. You just set the time. Okay. Not the time, the dates. Yeah. It goes live. You just go, you know, go live. And you start playing the whole album.
Okay. So I was like promoting that, you know, like, he gave me another social promotion. You know, like, hey, everybody, I’m doing the listening party. Yeah. Just sort of at that point, I’ve been already saying I have an album coming out for like a month. You know, and then I was like, yeah, it’s out. And what I did was, whoever gave me a response to those social posts, I sent them DMs saying, thank you for having an interest on my album. Here’s the link. You know, it’ll be great if you can support me. You know, I just kept on DMing. I remember getting one of those links too, and I did check it out.
Yeah, and I’m going to give you a promote you have to create a post for that because yeah, I got one of those DMs too. That was cool. Yeah, yeah, because you responded to my post, you know. So good ideas, yeah. I think that was good. But what I haven’t done is like use the actual ads, like meta ads for this kind of Bandcamp release, which I’m sure there’s a way. I’m still like learning meta ads.
Kevin: Yeah. Their interface is horrible. Eventually, I think I will get it. Their interface sucks ass too. It’s so cumbersome. Yeah. And how to, I mean, we’re going to have maybe, maybe, because it’ll be so broad, but one whole meetup topic totally focused around social media. It’s the good, the bad, and the ugly. And Bandcamp, do they have a thing where you can pay to get sponsored releases and ads through Bandcamp itself?
Embyrblume: No, they don’t. But they do have an editorial and every album you can send it to Bandcamp. Okay, you can pitch their team. So yeah, exactly, pitch for editorial, which didn’t get picked. Maybe they will later though, you never know, yeah. Yeah, well, maybe, I don’t know.
Kevin: Yeah, so having a set schedule, yeah, PhuturePhil really hammered that point in the earlier meeting too, having a fixed schedule and like, yeah, where you’re building a cadence. To me, yeah, that’s one of the secret things of social media, whether it’s maybe for music or anything else, is kind of like showing momentum, kind of like whatever your job is, like you’re building your resume too. Like I covered before, they say you want to do this, like show progression, show that you started off here, you went here, and then, oh, then you did this, and showing that momentum.
Okay, so yeah, sort of moving on then. So options for producers when releasing, so a mix of label and self-release. Are there any particular things you think you might want to watch out for or keep in mind or, again, maybe tips and tricks? And like I think I said to the earlier group, yeah, I think pretty much everyone, I think yourself as well, I think has done, and I think will continue to do so too, on a mix of some releases on a label, some of them are self-release.
And maybe if you think something’s really personal too, you don’t want to, I would guess maybe for your music too, Katie, like you felt like it was a very, because I know from what you said, it was maybe sharing some of your personal past experiences and what you went through and the strength and perseverance from your past, your childhood, different things. And so maybe if you think something is very personal, I could see to me, maybe you just want to do it in the self-release route. Maybe other things, you want to get a bigger audience or maybe you want to do a dancey, you know, fun, maybe you’d want to go with like the biggest EDM thing you could find, right?
So yeah, any thoughts on there, the mix and match kind of idea?
Embyrblume: Well, I don’t know if it’s a tip or hack, but I’m just doing a mix of those label and self-releases because I think it’s a completely two different experience, you know, and it has its own pros and cons.
Yeah, yeah. I think it’s both beneficial for my growth. And so I’m going to keep mixing them up. I think next one is coming out from a Japanese label and it’s so different from self-release. My self-release, I’m happy with my own mastering, but for label, you know, my own mastering is kind of probably not good enough, you know, like because labels want very, very made up sort of like products kind of mastering, I think, in my opinion.
Kevin: Oh, finished thing that’s ready to go, right out of the box, huh?
Embyrblume: Yeah, well, something like that. Like, what’s the word for it? I’m not sure, like when you self-release your mastering, I think, I mean, you could have a very perfectly executed mastering for yourself, at least. But for me, perfectly done mastering kind of sounds boring sometimes. You know, like, for example, I think Erykah Badu, you know, she says the same thing, you know. She’s like, when mastering people do the mastering, it kills her song. That’s what she says. Like, I feel kind of the same thing. You know, I don’t necessarily feel that it killed it. I think it’s tuned to more generic, perfect sound instead of my own sound. You know what I’m saying?
Kevin: Maybe kind of, yeah. Sometimes I get, to me, when I create the Electrofans mixes too, have you ever heard of King Crimson, the rock band? They’re old guys from the 60s, you know those guys? Robert Fripp. I mean, he’s written, I think, a lot about the creative process. And I remember reading that Robert Fripp, the guitar player from King Crimson, wrote like years ago. Again, I think there’s certain things that we as artists and creatives have in common. It’s actually like a torturous process, like the creative thing. Because it’s like our baby. That’s what Phil or somebody earlier said too. I feel like that for me. I haven’t produced my own tracks yet. Maybe I will later. But for me, my product is those podcasts where it’s a unique thing. It’s other people’s tracks, but the way I create them together and doing the mixing and the transitions….
Jammy Fuji, I think you know her too, from Fukuoka, DJ Jammy. I listened again to her, one of her mixes the other day. And it was, wow, it was so well done. So there’s aspects to that, the art of the mix or production where the elements, you put a track together or you do a mix. Because it sounds very rough otherwise. That’s also a sign, I think, of an amateur versus a pro DJ. If you just take two tracks and boom, and they’re really crappily put together, it’s important to create that smooth flow. I think whether you’re producing a track or a mix.
But where I’m going with this is just like I feel like, yeah, when you’re so, like Robert Fripp was saying, when you’re so close to it, it can be actually painful. I mean, I’m not a woman. I’ve never had a baby. When you push that baby out, it’s like, oh, that baby’s out and it’s creative to the world. And then you look at the beauty of that. It’s so strange, you know, the analogy, you know. Maybe I forgot why I even started bringing that up. I think so, yeah. We get really close to something, you know.
Embyrblume: Yeah. And you’re right. Self-release or label, they’re just different.
Kevin: Yeah, I can see that. And that’s what I kind of figured, that it’s not maybe necessarily that one’s better than the other. Maybe they’re different.
Embyrblume: And, you know, maybe if you just want more money or exposure, yeah, a label can be really powerful or different reasons.
Kevin: I guess what might be something that would make you want to go with a label versus doing a self-release maybe? Say for one of your future works, what would you be some factors in making you want to go with a label versus doing another self-release?
Embyrblume: Well, I am going to be working with this new label. Yeah, the Japanese label. No, no. Sorry. Like one or maybe a few releases after that. But like he’s kind of messaged me and his label is not like a big label, but he’s been doing an American label actually. He’s been running a label for like 15 years, worked with very, very famous people. And he’s doing it very slowly at the moment. But really each release, I think more, I don’t know, meticulously kind of tending to each release. Yeah,sure. He’s trying to work with each artist and trying to, I think, make each release shine. And I’m really looking, I’m really looking forward to working with this new label.
